Above: Electronic Signs in Times Square
A more common Electronic Message BoardA part of the Borough zoning codes are meant to address the size and placement of signs within the community. Good signs are important to help find the location of businesses. However, badly placed signs can block lines or sight for motorists. Brightly lit signs can cause temporary night blindness or distractions to drivers.
The Borough sign code was written when all signs were permanently lettered, and made of wood, metal or plastic. The latest trend in signs is for the use of LED lights or lighted monitors. Unlike the older styles of signs, these signs are programmable to change messages quickly and easily. For both businesses and the community as a whole, these signs have advantages and disadvantages.
Advantages:
These signs have the ability to advertise more than one business product or service at a single location. The Community can actually have less sign clutter, as fewer signs are needed.
Businesses can change their message to promote special sales.
Community groups and nonprofit organizations can advertise their events on prominent business signs.
If there are not too many of them, Electronic signs catch people’s attention
Some people think that electronic signs lend a prosperous, hi-tech appearance to a business or community.
Disadvantages:
Because they attract attention, there is a greater chance for driver distraction by electronic signs. Driver distraction causes accidents.
Some of the LED lights are more intense and can make it harder for drivers to adjust their eyes to the dark after looking at electronic signs, especially at night.
Some people do not like the appearance of electronic signs as they take away from small town ambiance or look inappropriate on historic buildings
Because electronic signs are changeable, they can have a very distracting message that changes quickly to a less distracting message. This makes it hard for zoning to regulate, as zoning deals best with more permanent matters, such as structures and buildings.
As the Borough Planning Commission discussed the regulation of electronic signs, all of the pros and cons were discussed, The Commission is looking to amend the zoning code to require that new electronic signs have a programming plan, and agree to limit their light output to avoid unnecessary glare. It was also agreed to discourage these signs from the view of residential areas to prevent light pollution. The Planning Commission had other questions about how and where electronic signs should be used within business and commercial areas.
If electronic signs were restricted to only downtown areas it would potentially help revitalize the downtown by creating a vibrant exciting appearance. However, it might detract from the small town downtown historic character. If electronic sign were allowed in major traffic corridors, such as Oakland Avenue, They are more likely to become a traffic nuisance or distraction to motorists.
We would like to hear from you…………….
Should the Borough encourage electronic signs, or discourage their use?
Are they a good thing in the Downtown?
Are they good thing in business areas along major traffic roads?
Please use the comment box to let us know your feelings.
The Borough sign code was written when all signs were permanently lettered, and made of wood, metal or plastic. The latest trend in signs is for the use of LED lights or lighted monitors. Unlike the older styles of signs, these signs are programmable to change messages quickly and easily. For both businesses and the community as a whole, these signs have advantages and disadvantages.
Advantages:
These signs have the ability to advertise more than one business product or service at a single location. The Community can actually have less sign clutter, as fewer signs are needed.
Businesses can change their message to promote special sales.
Community groups and nonprofit organizations can advertise their events on prominent business signs.
If there are not too many of them, Electronic signs catch people’s attention
Some people think that electronic signs lend a prosperous, hi-tech appearance to a business or community.
Disadvantages:
Because they attract attention, there is a greater chance for driver distraction by electronic signs. Driver distraction causes accidents.
Some of the LED lights are more intense and can make it harder for drivers to adjust their eyes to the dark after looking at electronic signs, especially at night.
Some people do not like the appearance of electronic signs as they take away from small town ambiance or look inappropriate on historic buildings
Because electronic signs are changeable, they can have a very distracting message that changes quickly to a less distracting message. This makes it hard for zoning to regulate, as zoning deals best with more permanent matters, such as structures and buildings.
As the Borough Planning Commission discussed the regulation of electronic signs, all of the pros and cons were discussed, The Commission is looking to amend the zoning code to require that new electronic signs have a programming plan, and agree to limit their light output to avoid unnecessary glare. It was also agreed to discourage these signs from the view of residential areas to prevent light pollution. The Planning Commission had other questions about how and where electronic signs should be used within business and commercial areas.
If electronic signs were restricted to only downtown areas it would potentially help revitalize the downtown by creating a vibrant exciting appearance. However, it might detract from the small town downtown historic character. If electronic sign were allowed in major traffic corridors, such as Oakland Avenue, They are more likely to become a traffic nuisance or distraction to motorists.
We would like to hear from you…………….
Should the Borough encourage electronic signs, or discourage their use?
Are they a good thing in the Downtown?
Are they good thing in business areas along major traffic roads?
Please use the comment box to let us know your feelings.
22 comments:
For a downtown in the process of upgrading its aesthetics, electronic signs clash. And the unattractiveness has a cost for business districts and for governments trying to draw revenue from the business district. Aesthetics matter. Unattractiveness can be costly.
Thanks for taking the time to comment
Why do they need to be removed. I know exactly which ones this ordinance is targeting, but what about the one at Giant Eagele? What about the one at the radio station? What about the banners that go across Philadelphia Street? To remove the electronic signs, you have to remove them all and not play favorites. A sign is a sign. Just because it is electronic does not make it distracting. Perhaps we should have a totally sign free borough. Are we crazy or what?
Einstein said “The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them.” I think this applies to the issue of signs. Downtown doesn't want to advertise for businesses that aren't downtown. The problem isn't that the sign is electronic, if that were the case the corner sign for the radio station is far more distracting, and more likely to cause an accident.
If downtown wants to gain more business, they should look at the simplest and most obvious reasons people shop elsewhere.
Most people under the age of 30 simply dread and avoid the idea of parallel parking. They got through it in the driving test, and haven't done it since. Put in angled parking. It will create more parking spaces, and will be more inviting to those that now drive past town to a place they can just pull in...and not worry about getting a ticket.
The world has changed a lot since downtown was thriving. It takes two people working in a household. If a family has more than one child, they are spending most of their spare time driving them to one of the many activities they have to do. School sports don't just start 2 weeks before and end with the season. They are all year long these day. Bottom line is, people don't have time anymore, so they have to be more efficient with the time they have. They go to the mall because it's opened after 5, and they can take care of many shopping needs all at one time, and not have to worry about getting a ticket for their patronage.
Many downtown businesses still close at 5, and because more than half the town is closed when people can actually do their shopping, why go to a place where you can't do most of your shopping at one time, especially if you have to pay to park there. Did I mention that you risk the chance of paying even more when you get a ticket?
I know that there are times where the times you have to pay to park are shortened, but I'm never sure when that is, and why take the chance when you don't have to? Downtown can become beautiful with the renovation project, but until you make it user friendly, who's going to stop and visit.
Michael Scott
Owner
Atlantis Photography, Indiana PA
I see no problem with electronic signs. We need to decide if we're living in 1960 or the 21st century. There are many who have a problem with change, any change. Let's not be paralized with fear. A bigger problem in Downtown Indiana are the piles of snow and ice. This IS A REAL SAFETY PROBLEM !! Come on, let's keep our eye on the ball. Solve the problems we have, and not create problems where there are none.
Michael Williams, Luxenberg's Jewelers
The signs are a service to the community, I agree with aesthetics and beautifying the community, so how can we make it all work together just like a community would do!
I am in agreement with many of the comments: we are now in a new day, age and era, the 2st century and beyond to be exaxt. I understand how we want to maintain the integrity and beauty of our community. However, there is no progress unless we change and move forward. We are all busy and we need young people. We need convenience to help us out in this busy age. Not having the electronic signs is the solution. If there is a problem, we should work on the problem so that we can have the signs. I really appreciated being able to see the advertising on Mindsight. It was truly helpful. If we need to modify the criteria to make it more acceptable, let's do so. Sorry but I have never thought of hating them; maybe I am missing something. I don't love them either, I just think they are something that is particularly useful and to rely on traditional advertising mediums is no longer effective. Let's try to move into the 21st century and beyond.Aesthetics and safety are one thing; but not try to make a viable item appropriate in today's society is like standing still while the training is moving on. It's better if we work it out. Stop the hurrah! The community could probably benefit financially as well from the electronic sighs.
As an owner of a company, Curly Bear Productions, and also being very involved in the community with non-profit organizations, I enjoy reading the electronic signs in Indiana. I like the fact that it gives me another avenue to advertise not only my company, but also an avenue to advertise upcoming charity events. These signs help enhance the community of Indiana, not only by keeping the public abreast of what's happening, but also helps drive the Indiana economy, by local business advertising locally to local people and being able to keep the money in Indiana. Indiana's Slogan is Indiana - Growing Right Here - We should follow this and allow Indiana to grow, even if that means to grow in the technological acpect as well. Why shouldn't Indiana, PA be on the forefront of the 21st Century!!!! The other slogan used in Indiana quite frequently is about keeping the $ here in Indiana, well this form of advertising does that - I do not have time to sit and read the paper, however sitting in my car at a red light, I can view the ads and know what local companies do that otherwise I may not know. Please keep these signs!!!!!!!!!
Kris Mellinger
Owner
Curly Bear Productions
If you travel to other communities like Brookville, Ridgeway, St. Mary's that have gone through re-vitalization, one would seen that a theme has been followed. The question is what is athetically nice. One person pointed out over the street banners. This idea although modern in materials goes back decades. Neon while bright goes back decades. My point is that if the local business and community believe that a quaint, old fashioned look is the mode for downtown, then LED flashing and scrolling signs are not the way to go. Old fashioned is the theme that I feel is condusive to people shopping here--not the Soho look. We are not New York or London. We are a small town in Western Pa with old fashioned ideals. Would you put a flashing led sign in Smicksburg.
I agree with other posts here that electronic signs are not a concern. If they were a safety hazard, our big cities would be inundated with litigation. On the contrary, these signs are everywhere, even showing full-length TV commercials! They are a beautiful addition to many areas. Safetly is certainly not an issue.
My real concern is about fairness and consistency. I read about these Mindsight signs all the time, but not one word about the huge electronic radio station sign. The borough needs to be consistent about this; they're both on or they're both off. I vote for "on."
I agree that there are other issues that need to be dealt with rather than these electronic signs. I believe that the different advertisements that are displayed have the potential to build business for Indiana County. If Doug's signs have to go, I believe the other electronic signs need to come down as well.
I understand that Downtown is trying to improve it's appearance, but are the signs really a problem? I can think of several other items that should be addressed rather than this one. Parking!!! When I do have the luck to find a spot, I have to dig out a ton of quarters to park there, and hope it's enough to cover the little bit of time I will be spending. Otherwise, I will spend a lot of money in tickets! Snow Piles!!! When I am parked, I have to be halfway up a snowbank in order not to get clipped by a passing vehicle. And, let's be fair, if you are taking down the advertising signs, shouldn't you also remove the ticker? that is much more distracting than a couple second advertisement.
These electronic signs add a sense of vitality to the business district. In addition, they are an excellent way for small businesses to advertise their products and services. Many of these small businesses can not afford to advertise in conventional media such as Radio, TV or newspapers.
In addition, these signs also show messages for many of the non-profit organizations.
Many studies have shown that these types of signs do not cause traffic accidents. In fact, there is a reverse relation. The installation of the electronic message centers help to reduce traffic accidents.
Electronic message centers help to reduce visual clutter by eliminating the need for temperary banners, flags and penants.
Steve Gerson, President
Visual Information Systems
I do not find the signs distracting or particularly unattractive - but simply a "sign of the times" This seems to be targeting one vendor and not others... they do provide a valuable advertising service to many.
The focus of this proposed ordinance seems to be the Mindsight signs. I really don't look at them that often, but I don't find them nearly as distracting as the sign on the Radio Station building.
If the council was going to make electronic signs illegal, they should have decided that before they told Varner to go ahead and spend the money to install his signs. Or does the Council think it's okay to cry "Do over!" when they change their minds? Most of us are more mature than that.
If flashing lights are unsafe for motorists, you'd better get rid of them all, right? Including the ones on top of school buses. I find those more distracting than lighted signs.
As someone else said, fixing the parking in town will do more to draw customers than all this kerfuffle about electronic signs. I've followed this in the newspaper, and it sounds more and more like a vendetta against Varner. Drop it and move on.
For the record, I am not a friend of Varner's. I've met him a couple times at Chamber events, but I can't really say I know him.
Also, I run my business from a Philadelphia Street office. I quite often meet clients elsewhere, because they don't want to fight for parking by my office.
Forget the silly signs. Concentrate on making Philadelphia Street accessable. Fix something that needs fixed.
Thank you all for your comments. A couple of you wrote about why comments were not displayed right away. I check the weblog account twice a day on weekdays to moderate comments to make sure this stays a family friendly site! all comments are published unless they are obscene or malicious, but I use a moderation setting to hold them until I read them.
I think the issue of the electronic message signs is a fist amendment, (freedon of Speech) issue. Government continues to try to limit our right to free speech. It's interesting that some borough official who is running for office has no problem placing a sign in my yard for the campaign. Let me erect an elecronic sign and we have serious issues we need to legislate. This is an example of why I chose to locate my business in White Twp. 23 years ago.
In this economy, it is difficult for any business to start up and thrive. I think it is wonderful that a small town like Indiana has a high tech advertising opportunity available. They are my competition; but I still think they are good for all the businesses in the area. Let's get a reputation for being on the cutting edge of technology and business opportunities. Let's encourage this not hinder it. Jennifer Forrest
Small Town Life Magazine
It seems that the majority of the comments have covered anything that I could say, but I want to add my support to allowing the electronic signs to stay. The points that I agree with are: The Mindsight signs are no more distracting than the radio station sign, so if one has to go, out of fairness, both should go. The Mindsight folks offer free advertising to non-profits, which is a benefit to the entire community. Fairness in this issue is a necessity, therefore all electronic signage would have to be removed if the Mindsight is removed. Why would Mindsight be given initial approval and now, after the expense of the installation, be told to remove them - just doesn't make sense. There are bigger safety issues than the signs - the snow piling up is only one issue, how about the use of cell phones while driving - both issues are bigger safety issues than the electronic signs.
Please get on with real issues of the borough and let the signs alone.
I own a sign shop that does not do electronic signs and I am for these, even though they really are competition for my company.
The climate in downtown is very ANTI-business as has been seen by the dirty pool they played with Mr Varner, their treatment of Hot Dog John and the IUP bookbuy van, not to mention the plan to cut off the businesses on north 7th to make an outside area for people to use the 3 days a year we have summer.
Parking, the huge piles of ice & snow that render a lot of spaces unusable and the bulb-outs that are a safety hazard are what coucil should be focusing on if they truly want Indiana to thrive.
IF these signs were mistakenly given approval years ago, then those responsible for approving them should own up to their mistakes and take responsibility. It's time to admit their mistake and move on, not force Mr. Varner to spend thousands of dollars to hide their mistake.
As for the aesthetics argument, how aesthetically pleasing are boarded up storefronts? If this anti-business dictatorship is allowed to continue, that is exactly what will happen. Many businesses have chosen to locate in surrounding municipalities where there is parking and they aren't treated like the enemy by the local government.
The adage about business that "you're either growing or you're dying" also applies to towns. Council throwing away money on writing a new sign code, only to then choose to keep the code from the 1960s, shows which way they want Indiana to go.
Chris Welker, owner
Wildfire Signs
The Mindsight signs may be high tech, but they are an eyesore and a traffic hazard. They are a private venture, not a community service, and they primarily advertise businesses outside the downtown. We've got to decide whether we're living in the past, when there was little regard for taste and aesthetics, or the 21st century of increasingly competitive small towns that capitalize on their architectural and infrastructural strengths. Electronic signs are becoming ubiquitous and add nothing to quality of life.
I cant believe there is still controversy about these signs! I have not heard one good reason NOT to allow them in Indiana Borough - the aesthetics argument is laughable. The argument that the signs will advertise other businesses that are not down town can be remedied by advertising the down town businesses on signs near the mall. Let the signs be erected - I'm proud to have these kind of modern advertisements in this town. Lets concentrate on REAL problems, such as snow and ice removal. The snow and ice keeps more people away from down town than any sign could possibly do. Even with the new parking (will it ever be done?) on Philadelphia Street, the snow and ice issue remains a major problem, both for drivers and pedestrians.
Terri George
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